Fighting for the evangelical vote
September 2, 2008 · Print This Article
This year’s election drama has been hotter than any soap opera I’ve ever seen. We have racism, sexism, ageism, pregnant teens and a long legged VP. It really can’t get any better, can it?
One interesting thing I’ve noticed is a shift in how the democratic party has been speaking. In the past there seemed to have been a distinct line drawn that separated church and state. Sure there have always been Christian democrats, but let’s be honest here, the white evangelical vote hasn’t ever been up for grabs… Until now.
We have a candidate in Obama who can talk Jesus with the best of them and a guy in McCain who seems a bit more reserved in his relationship with almighty God.
“When working as a community organizer with other churches, helping to build struggling neighborhoods, I let Jesus Christ into my life. I learned that my sins could be redeemed,” -Barack Obama
I’m sure we all get the political advertisements in the mail. Typically when a republican sends the slick mailer it has “Conservative Christian” plastered all over it. The democrat’s card normally doesn’t mention faith at all. This year though Obama is blatantly advertising that he is a card carrying Christian and McCain rarely speaks of it at all.
When McCain was getting all religious on us a few months ago he partnered with guys like Rod Parsley and John Hagee, ouch. I’ll let you research their stances on the Jews and Islam yourself, a quick Google will suffice. That’s not to say that Obama didn’t have his pastor problems though. Two words, “Jeremiah Wright”. Oddly enough, it seems the pastor issues canceled each other out and the race is on for the white evangelical vote.
For years the issue has been about being “pro-life”. This year it seems to be about having an ethic of life. Meaning being pro-life in areas other than the just unborn. I think people are asking broader questions like: Which candidate is pro-life for Iraq? Which one has an ethic of life regarding health care? How about an ethic of life for those in prison or on death row?
In 2004 President Bush got a whopping 78% of the evangelical vote. Right now McCain is hovering at about 60%. Obama is being aggressive for that final 40%. He’s starting an outreach program that incorporates service projects and shilling at Christian concerts.
If I were McCain I wouldn’t count on the Christian vote just falling my way. The lines aren’t as clearly drawn and this soap opera is just going to get hotter!
-Rex Barrett
image via ShellyS
Lot rolling for sure on these matters. I for one have had to back off from preaching endorsements to “Conservativism” as the answer to our world’s woes. Looking over the many terms of conservatives on the past several decades tells us clearly that “Conservativism” will not save America. Only Christ will save our Nation.
Your comment regarding Iraq, Health Care & Death Row seems to be a stretch on the abortion issue in my humble and still conservative opinion. Those issues are important but we must never bring a comparison in the philosophy of war to the issue of a mother taking the life of an innocent child in her womb. Biblically there is a time for war (Eccl 3:8). To compare the consideration of opinions regarding when that time has come to the opinion of abortion starts sounding a little pro-choice.
I respect you bunches Rex. Love you much and am glad we’re friends. Your perspectives have moved away from where they used to be but the truth is that it’s helped enlarge and shape me to a better person. Thanks for the post and keep’em coming!
Quick point and I’ll be posting a lot more tonight…
Don’t confuse what I am saying with being pro-choice. I AM SO PRO-LIFE I DON’T BELIEVE IN KILLING ANYONE! I just want to make sure that point is clear. In Paul’s words, “I’m printing this in huge freaking letters with my own hands so you’ll know I’m serious” (or something like that)
I’m gearing up a response but have to take off for our gathering tonight. Looking forward to dialogue on this issue. It is healthy for us to be having it in this day and time!
Love ya too bro!
I LIKE THE HUGE FREAKING LETTERS COMMENT. Made me laugh. Look forward to your response. Rock on Barrett man!
This might be a long one… I might turn it into a post too.
In paragraph one you are correct, Jesus is the only answer to the world’s woes. The kingdom that God wanted to build in the Old Testament was one without a king though. It was people coming together, meeting each other’s needs with no king, no major welfare system, no president. Every seventh year all debt was demolished, and riches were shared with everyone. (is that the Kingdom we are ready to live in?) The people wanted a king and God’s promise was that they would feel the brunt of trying to do it man’s way. I’m tired of trying to do it the “powerful” way. To say that America = Christianity is not true at all. America does a lot of damage in the name of God. Stuff God would never do in this New Testament life we are to live.
Paragraph two is where we find the bulk of our friendly disagreement! Christians need to have dialogue and we should be the best example of civil debate to the world because of our faith in Christ. So here goes!
I am not stretching the abortion issue at all. What I am saying is that I AM SO PRO-LIFE I think it grieves Jesus when we begin to say that one kind of death (war) is not as horrible as another (infanticide). They are both disgusting and wrong. Do you know how many INNOCENT civilians have been killed in the name of God and Patriotism in Iraq? On 9/11 3000 Americans were killed. In response America has killed and killed a lot. Documented deaths are at 100,000 Iraqis and undocumented conservative estimates are at approaching 700,000 dead Iraqis.(Lancet Medical Journal, Oct. 21 2006 *it is one of the most well known peer-revied journals in the world*)
Eccl 3:8 does say there is a time for war, but it also says there is a time of killing and hate too. Those aren’t of Christ at all and to justify hatred and death by those same verses doesn’t compute to me. These verses don’t condone war, hate or killing but offer insight into the evil of man. It will happen, but as Christians we are not to be a part. When war is directly spoken of in Ecclesiastes we see: Eccl 9:18 Wisdom is better than weapons of war, but one sinner destroys much good.
I believe in a pro-life ethic in life. I am SO CONSERVATIVE I’m saying that killing even one death row inmate is wrong. Life in prison as a punishment, go for it, but to return violence with violence is NOT what Christ shared on earth.
What were our Leader’s words? The Sermon on the Mount states Love is the only way! “Love your enemies. Return good for evil” Please, help me know how war, killing and destruction fit into those words? Jesus ROCKED our world, He turned it all upside down, he didn’t change the rules, He completely redefined the game. And Luke 6:28 says “Bless those who curse you”
The New Testament Church 300 years after the ascension of Christ went through three horrible times of persecution and stayed nonviolent. If there was EVER a case for rising up and retaliating this would be the time, but PEACE was preached. I’ve heard it said that when Christ disarmed Peter he disarmed all Christians. -Tertullian
What were the founding fathers of our faith’s words?
Paul repeats Christ in Romans 12:14 “Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse”.
It says in 1 Peter 2:19, 23 For it is commendable if you bear up under the pain of unjust suffering because you are conscious of God… When they hurled their insults at Him, He did not retaliate, when he suffered, He made no threats. Instead He entrusted himself to him who judges justly.
My point? Here we go. There is no way to love as Christ and the early church loved and simultaneously kill other people or support the killing other people.
Who do we find safety in? In America’s guns or in Jesus Christ & Father God our protector.
“The divine banner and the human banner do not go together, nor the standard of Christ and the standard of the Devil. Only without the sword can the Christian wage war: the Lord has abolished the sword.” -Tertullian (aka the first protestant, google it)
I’ll close with a quote from Peter Maurin:
“If I am crazy, it’s because I refuse to be crazy in the same way that the world has gone crazy.”
Multiple references from “Jesus for President” and the Pax Christ Conference.
Interesting take Rex. Respect your opinion and perspective. Will simply say that the idea of excluding or minimizing the idea behind Ecclesiastes statement of there being a time for war would also require that we not pay attention to Jesus own words telling his disciples to purchase the weapon of their day, a sword = Luke 22:36. If he only believed in turning the other cheek certainly he would have told them not to dare own a sword.
One thing I want to mention beyond all of this. I so appreciate your heart. Always have. Always will. Be blessed my friend…
Yeah, you can take Luke 22 as a huge dismissal of nonviolence or you can evaluate how the disciples lived their lives. Just a few verses later Peter was rebuked for using his sword at the time of Jesus’ arrest!
I think if we use scripture to interpret scripture we see it in a different light. Here is how The Message translates the Greek. And many scholars are now agreeing with this translation:
Luke 22:38They said, “Look, Master, two swords!”
*But he said, “Enough of that; no more sword talk!”*
If Jesus was telling them to take up a sword for personal protection they sure were bad at it and they only had a couple for the entire gang of disciples. The disciples spoken to in Luke 22 were horrible at using that sword, nearly all of them died a martyrs death. No sword fights documented!
Don’t you think Jesus was more likely having a bit of a “parable” type moment? Teaching them that there was imminent harm coming their way? Maybe being a bit sarcastic in the sword talk since it is SO FAR AWAY FROM ANYTHING ELSE HE ACTUALLY TAUGHT?
Bible Verses Below:
“Blessed are the peacemakers for they will be called sons of God.”
“You have heard it said, ‘eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person, but if someone strikes you on the right check, turn to him the other also.”
“You have heard that it was said, ‘love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.”
“Put your sword back in its place, for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.” (Jesus said this to Peter after Peter used the sword)
Something to think about and research, check out the translation of Luke 22:28 and you’ll see the correlation to the “NO MORE SWORD TALK” type of thinking.
Thanks for the encouragement bro. I love talking Bible stuff, it it totally exciting! See ya!
Examining various translations does allow us to see verses from a different light. Of course the Message is a very loose translation to give a modern feel. The Message makes no reference to the word, “buy” or “purchase” while the original Greek language has the word, “agorazo” in the text when Jesus was telling them to “buy” or “purchase” a sword. This is completely neglected in the Message translation that you’ve referenced. I know it might seem crazy to some but I’ve actually had a staff member carry a gun into our church services! I do have my conceal and carry license but I’ve never packed in a church service - I’m not quite that radical but the right to bear arms is one constitutional right I’m proud of. Jesus would be a member of the NRA today - just kidding to spike some readers perhaps. Bless you. Have a great day!
Eugene Peterson is a master of the Greek language and knows the insides of scripture very well. Leaving out the “buy” word is true, but don’t just judge The Message’s word for it alone. Look it up and research it, you might just be surprised. I know it is a modern translation but there are many other scholars (much smarter than you or me) that can’t give the definitive answer as to what was being said in Luke 22. Many actually believe it does say “No more sword talk”.
That is why I say to interpret scripture with scripture. Making Luke 22 be the issue is really a “straw man” argument. The issue we’re talking about isn’t about if Jesus wanted the disciples to defend themselves, it is about if Jesus wanted us to be engaged in STRIKING OUT AT PEOPLE IN WAR. Can you read Luke 22 and reconcile that with Jesus’ full teachings to condone war?
You’ve not talked about how the verses I shared after Luke 22 effect you at all, you only made a point on one verse that has translation issues.
Where does the Sermon on the Mount fit your theology? Peacemakers? Put your sword away? Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you? Where does the FACT that for 300 years during horrible persecution the Church and of the disciples, the body of Christ did not pick up a sword? The BULK of Jesus’ work was to proclaim God’s love and peace.
About that staff member, he was ignorant, but won’t continue to be… I’ll tell a story here: There was a man named Paul, he at one time espoused war and killing in the name of his god. He had a moment when Jesus was so aggressive with him it transformed his life. He was blinded but was given new sight. Sight to see what Christ wanted him to see. Paul then became a man of peace, a guy who took the beatings and didn’t give them out. He had a radical transformation when the truth was revealed to him. It changed his life and ministry.
I’m ashamed to say that the man with the gun was me. I felt that jab bro!
You are correct, that’s who I was. But hear me now, the truth of the Gospel of Peace has been so strong it transformed this man and knocked me off my horse. I was given sight to focus on the teachings of Jesus, the PRINCE OF PEACE. I am in the process of eliminating defensive guns from my life. Guns aren’t my protection, Jesus is. Worst case scenario, I end up in heaven!
On your point of constitutional rights:
I don’t live by the rules of the constitution, I live by the words in the Bible where the two disagree I follow His Words not man’s. My allegiance isn’t to America alone, it is to Christ Jesus and His teachings. They supersede my allegiance to this country.
You can’t invalidate the work of the Peace of Jesus and the early church by taking a couple of verses and building a whole teaching around them.
I know it is a crazy 180 degree turn in my life. I know it is hard to believe. But if God can soften THIS HEART, one that is “that radical” in your words, then don’t you think He can soften the hearts of others to have an ethic of life in all areas too?
To me, the fact that I have been shaken so much is an indication of the work God is doing in me! The miracle of life being infused into the fabric of who I am. I can tell I’m more compassionate to people. The “love your enemies” thing really MESSED ME UP!
God chose us as Christians to help proclaim His peace and I will be a proclaimer of peace!
I love chatting with you pastordude! I love having to really think out what I believe. I hope you can see that I’m not just some kind of beatnik granola eating freak, but that I have invested literally hundreds of hours of study time into the Gospel of Peace.
Again, I love discussing all of this, as Christians we should exemplify the right way to communicate differing viewpoints and I believe we are doing just that!
Hey Rex – I was just messin’ with you on the carrying the gun thing. Didn’t intend for you to “go public” with it. My intention was to offer a relational jab that would have just been between us to make you smile not cut you. Hope you understand that and sincere apologies if it went any other direction.
Eugene Peterson is probably awesome but I don’t agree with omitting the meaning of a Greek word for the sake of a more amicable translation. Just my opinion and I’m sure my opinion is far less educated than his but still my opinion.
The other verses you mentioned that I’ve not commented on are because this has become a bit lengthy for me. My apologies for not continuing putting the time and energy into this continued discussion. I do see that Jesus told Peter to put his sword away and if any governmental official, police officer, etc… brings authority into our lives I believe this is what the Lord would continue to ask us to do. We must submit to Christ first but he does require of us also to render to Caesar what is Caesar’s and honor whatever authority or government structure we happen to live in. This is where my comment about my constitutional right came in. Never meant to say that those rights are higher than my Kingdom allegiance at all.
Awesome! Okay we agree that we don’t agree. I fully understand that you’ve changed theological positions with some of your beliefs. It’s been my observation (limited as it may be) that your base theological opinions are about Christ and winning the world which we absolutely both agree with. Keep going for it! We may not vote the same throughout our lifetimes but we do serve the same King. You are a passionate man and for that I honor and respect you my friend.
I loved the jab, I thought it was hilarious. I agree this has been a long conversation, thanks for indulging!
Let’s draw people away from darkness and into His wonderful light! Thanks for the kind words and as time goes on I hope we can come to more and more of an agreement on the issue of peace. I’m not putting the onus on you for the agreement either. I’m open to learning and growing continually.
Love ya bro, this has been fun!
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